Claude Fable 5.2 登場、そしてNvidiaのジェンスン・フアンCEO辞任

The AI world was rocked this week by two things. First and foremost, a brand new model from Anthropic that we are going to go hands-on with. Oh, and speaking of getting hands-on with some models outside of the marriage, NVIDIA's got a new CEO. So that's fun. We all have brand new scandals that sadly, definitely affect all of our lives. We'll be showcasing what you can do with Fable 5.2, and we've got significant updates on the ouster of Jensen Wong from NVIDIA and what it might mean for you. Well, I know what it means for all of us. The cameos are dirt cheap. Tell them, Jensen. You're not talking to somebody who woke up a loser. And that loser attitude, that loser premise makes no sense to me. Am I the loser, Gavin? Am I the loser? No, you're not, Gavin. Honestly, I don't know that anybody... It's a really tough story with a real deep rabbit hole that might involve the CIA. We'll get into that. But also, I think in way more interesting news, I am personally stoked to share my time with a new AI gaming platform that has me and some actually talented, like, capable, pedigreed, legendary game developer types all excited.

It's like if you can dream it, you can build it. Yeah, sure, you could dream with AI, but why not turn it into really fun nightmares? I made those weird viral talking layering things into singing cowboys, and I'll tell you how I did it. No, it's bad. It's nightmare fuel. It's not good. But I guess the silver lining is that all of the viewers out there get to determine who wasted more of their time. It's me. I was the one that wasted the time. Plus, we've got new models from Gemini. We've got Adobe's Max Event and Claude gets spreadsheets. I've known you 20 plus years and I'm genuinely the most excited I've seen you be for anything. And I know you're not feeling well, but the fact that you get up for spreadsheet. I know you are. You're sick in the damn head, and the spreadsheets aren't going to help you. This is AI for Humans, everybody. Welcome, everybody, to AI for Humans, your weekly guide into the wonderful world of AI. Kevin, this week we have some juicy, juicy stories.

The story that took over the world, which is really the Jensen Wong story, which we are going to get into a little bit. There is a lot of stuff going on there. But more importantly for our fans and people that watch this show is that there is an incredibly capable model that is new and is out on the model blocks. What do we call it? Out in the street. Out on the main street. Yeah, on the street. Fable 5.2 is here, and it is really, really good. I think you and I have both spent some time with it. I was kind of not surprised to see this come out. The one weird surprising thing is that this is a 5.2 model, which is strange because you have Opus 5.5, which you and I have both said, at least for me, has been my daily driver now for like the last probably two to three months. I believe that 5.5 is the most or was the most capable model. And Kevin, I'm here to say Fable 5.2 is better for me. Now, I know there's been some mixed results out there, and it is more expensive to use. But in general, I have been really, really pleased with this. What is your first impression of this model so far?

superplussed, super pleased, have never run out of tokens faster. I mean, it's the first time on a $200 Claude plan that I have been like, oh man, like hands in the air, 48 hours in the penalty box, waiting for a refresh to happen because Anthropix still does this thing where you have hourly caps and then you have a weekly cap and then you have a cap on a specific model, which happens to be stable. But I'll digress. I agree with you and I agree with what the benchmarks show and I agree with the kind of the vibes that are still out there on social. It is one of the most capable models, probably the most capable model I've ever used. And it has taste. Yeah. We get into that. I think that's an important thing. Across multiple disciplines as well. Like it is – it seems really capable at – even though it can't like hear, it can through code understand what it means to have good sound design. It can make things in Blender that look like they were made in a video model.

But if you don't know the difference, one is actually making the 3D model and adding a texture and lighting it. It is far more technical, but the results look absolutely amazing. So without digressing and getting in the weeds too much, what has been your experience? And then let's share some other folks' experience. Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing to think about, your taste thing there is really important. And I think there's a couple things that I want to dive into. One, there's been this long conversation about like, we use the word taste and that's kind of a cliche in this space. But the idea that this model is making choices creatively that are really interesting is a big deal, right? And I think we saw some of this starting with Opus 5.5 and it's still much better. To me, these cloud models are much better in that way than the OpenAI models or any other model. The other thing I think that was really interesting that I want to talk about that we should kind of dive, we can dive into bigger, more examples later. But they had a thing in their post originally when they put this out, which was about it training robotics models. And this is something I think is really important as these models get stronger, especially the frontier models, is that they are going to kind of come for all the specialist models, right?

Like there was this whole thing a year or two ago. In fact, somebody just recently tweeted something like, hey, remember when RAG was a big deal, which was a certain kind of like being able to grab memory in different places? Because, well, it turns out that these frontier models, as they get better, just get better at everything. That's the taste part. But it's also this robotics thing, right? Because there's been all these people that have been training robotics models so that they could train these robots on real-world environments. And what it turns out to be is that Fable 5.2 is really good at that, too, right? So it's, like, really good at the robotics models. And that's not what he said for the science stuff that's been going on or all of those other things. And so we really are starting to see this kind of world of these generalized models eating everything, meaning that if these models get better, they get better. Years ago, Sam Altman said you're going to lose if you're going up against the foundational models, these frontier models. You're going to lose if you're going to try to take them on and custom train your own thing that performs a little bit better with, say, computer use or robotics or making music, coding, all of these things.

And at first it was like, well, he's preaching his own bag. He's saying, don't compete with us. We're going to outperform you. But his words have held true in this regard is that if you were one of those robotic startups claiming your model did X, Y, Z and it did it X percent better, you got steamrolled this week. And I think that's going to happen just as you're saying across all the other domains as these things come out. When we talk about taste, we're talking about like creative taste. Yes, its ability to – and we'll get to some examples very, very soon that are mind-blowing, even for just a few weeks ago mind-blowing. It's creative taste in that. It's also taste in interpreting what the user wants from it. I feel myself with Fable 5.2 not having to get so prescriptive with what I want or my expected behavior. And even with quote-unquote creative tasks saying, you go ahead and you have flexibility. You know what you think might be most interesting here or what might be best here. And it comes back with things that I go, oh, yeah, that's actually – that is a more interesting way to open up the sizzle to the show that I'm shopping.

or a better interface for the tool that I'm trying to build. So I know you made some nightmarish things with it, which we're going to get to. Well, let's talk about some of the stuff we saw. So I think there's a really interesting and good example of this kind of interesting choices being made in this six-finger punch pong game that was created by Photon Storm on X. And what this is, if you look at the clip, it just looks like a normal pong game. but then clearly it's i think it's based on an old uh flash game but this it took a bunch of creator's and what it does is each if you play a pong game then you play it across all these different things and if you're watching this on video you can see how it goes from normal old school pong to like a 3d pong into like a psychedelic pong all of these choices were from a very basic prompt that the user asked it just to make a fun new version of pong and go wild and i'm going to talk about the thing i did a little bit which is a similar sort of thing but That's to your point, Kev, where like you don't have to give it that.

It's almost a more interesting way to see it explore, right? Like, yes, you can get these models to do specifically what you want and you can direct them very directly. But they also are really capable of making creative, interesting things on their own. And like, I think people are going to start to feel a little bit. And I know I've been feeling this last couple of weeks, especially after this talking larynx video. I'll talk about it in a second, that I have been more and more impressed about the idea that maybe creativity going forward is this kind of back and forth between me and the model, right? Like in the same way with the AI docs that I made, it's not just go do this for me. It's like the model brings something back, and then I play off of that, and then it plays off of me in a really cool way. Look, I got – even back then I was getting a little raked over the coals when I made that first like Suno video way back in the day. It was like you're going to jam with the machines. It's going to be jazz. You're going to communicate and each play your part. I stand by that. I think you're feeling it too and others are as well, whether you're painting or you're coding, you're designing a video game.

You're making your own digital audio workstation, which we should talk about. kieran did like you're going to be able to jam with machines to even make something that is a jam yeah you know that reminds me something that's really interesting so we should talk about what kieran made uh who's a great engineer at every but something that's interesting about what you just mentioned there is like suno is still kind of a very old school prompting thing right like you put in a prompt you get a result back and yes you can go and go kind of like you know all the tools they've created for pro uh or pro prosumer kind of audio files but part of me wants an audio model where like i can go back and forth with it and manipulate it really easily does that exist yet anywhere can you think of anything like that i've seen i've seen plugins and things like that yeah where you can kind of like hum something and it will take it and then iterate on it it seemed a little manual and that you were almost like a old school stable diffusion where you're turning certain dials to make it take your sample and go in different directions with it but But are you more like, you want to do one of your patented Purcell scat solos into the microphone, and then it turns it into that improv?

Part of me wants to be like, okay, it gives me a song back. But then I want to be like, oh, that's not exactly right. I'd like to have this thing be this and this thing be that and just have the model know how to do that and redo it. Like, it feels like we should be able to do that sort of thing now. But maybe because the audio models are kind of like the video models where it's like you put one prompt in and you get a result back. We're not there to the iterative space yet. I think the most interesting thing to me about all these really cool visual coding things we've seen is that there is a future where, like, all of this feels like it will be manipulable because it will all be code, right? Like, it will all be code. And if it's all code, then it's very easy to do. That reminds me of another thing I wanted to shout out, which was – we'll go back to Kieran's thing in a second – which is that there are people out there using Fable 5.2 to create paintings as well. This is from Jake Eden. So one of the things I'm always fascinated with these models is, like, what will they do creatively? And Jake decided he was going to give a Fable 5.2 the ability to create personas, which I think is a really important thing for you to know. And it's part of what I do with Fig is you want to make sure that the model is not just acting as the model itself, but it has a personality in some way that it's coming from.

Because what you will get that you'll get a lot more interesting, creative things like the thing we're going to talk about, the talking larynx is part of that is the way it is because of who Fig has become with my interactions with him. and I think you can get a lot of vanilla stuff from these models if you just ask them the basics but if you work with them for a while or like Jake did create personas so that each persona is going to create its own sort of tasted thing that feels like a really smart way to start creating stuff that's a little more interesting than the basic outputs as well yeah um I've rolled to the circle back on Kieran's uh DAW again this is a digital audio workstation it's like a piece of software that you can use to make you know music and that's that's what it is yeah Yeah, he's on the team at Every, and he vibe-coded the ambient digital audio workstation that he's always wanted, and he picked away at it at night for about a week, he says. And if you check out the video, we'll put the link in the show notes. You know, it looks as feature-rich as old Pro Tools or Logic would have been, but it's the version of the audio software that he has always wanted, and now it's his.

and if he doesn't like the way something looks or he doesn't like the way a loop is implemented, he has direct 100% control and access to that. And there used to be a trade-off there, right? There used to be this trade-off where if you're like, I'm going to make my own little thing, I'm going to make my own software, you're always like, well, I know it's not going to be perfect, but I'll have things set up the way I want. Now, I feel like you can actually make super powerful software because in part you can reverse engineer something that you already like and then add or subtract the features that you don't want, which feels like a big deal. Also, you mentioned everything's going to be code. That's never been more true in some of the crazy videos that are coming out now. There was one I just want to shout out by Dada, who did Paperclip Crunch, which is a 90s-inspired breakfast cereal commercial. Oh, yeah. This is great. Yeah, I'll just play a little bit of it here. We can play. It is a delightful jingle all done in code all by Fable 5

It looks like a 90s cartoon. There's even a CRT effect on the entire video. Just really crazy to see that that isn't a video model. That is just pure code. It's incredible. How many shares are you buying, Gavin? That is something that's happening next week, by the way. The Anthropic IPO is actually happening. There's about a 45-minute video that they put out, which I have to sit down and watch. I have it on my browser. I haven't watched it because I've been feeling a little under the weather. But that is happening next week. And, Kevin, I think no better reason to talk about that than let's talk about the Chimera model, what it is, and then what I did with it in Table 5.2 because I think this is going to be helpful. So, first, the Chimera model is a basic – it's not a model. It is a GitHub project that you can go and find. and I'll tell you in a second what I did with this. But basically, if you have seen weird lined sort of art faces that have a working larynx talking in robotic voices online this week,

this is what this comes from. So Jameson Hodge released this with a video where he said, like, I only make serious software, and you see this little – can you play a little bit of that, Kevin, just because this is the first beginning stage of what we heard for this thing. Well, I want a quick throwback to, I think, even our Attack of the Show days, Gavin. Oh, yeah. Why? The original mouth video? It was a... I don't. Oh, I'll send you the link here for you to pull out. Okay. Was it like this? Is this a throwback to that? Yeah. So it looked like, I don't know how else to say it, but it kind of looked like a fleshlight that had valves beneath it. It was like a... Oh, I do remember this. I do remember this. Was this that old or was this from... I thought we covered this on a tag of the show, but that was that old? That's this mouth video? I think so, yeah. Oh, I think it was. I mean, maybe it was post-attag of the show, but I feel like it was decades old. I think we covered this on this show, but maybe I'm wrong. But anyway, this thing is ridiculous. You're right. Yeah. I got it. Well, now I know I want to know. I feel like it's so old. It is so old. It is a robotic mouth. It is a latex sleeve with like a pistons beneath it and like a simulated sinus cavity and a nose.

And it sounds like this. oh my god it sounds so sad it sounds so sad i need pdl it's me after my red bull and vodka phase in my yeah so by the way we should we should very quickly say what's going on here is it's in both virtual for the chimera stuff and in this video you'll see a physical representation of it it is trying to replicate the way that the human voice is created because it's air plus the movement of the layerings that create sounds that we make, right? Yes, yes. Yeah, so, okay, so Jameson basically took that idea and created a GitHub repo where essentially anybody could go out there and create a virtual version of one of these things. And maybe, Kevin, can you just play the original audio from his first post that blew up? Okay, so that may sound crazy,

but what you're seeing on screen, if you're not watching, is a kind of stylized weird face, almost like a stick figure face. But very specifically, you see a lot in the larynx. And you see the words come out. And they're coming out syllable by syllable, right? So this took over the internet. There's some really great ones out there. There's a great, you can see everything one where everything was put into these places. But what's cool about this, and what Jameson did is it's a GitHub repo, right? So you can basically take your agent and you can point it at this thing. And I was like, well, what do I want to try to do with Fable 5.2 and I was like, aha, I think this is a good test for Fable 5.2 to see what it can do. So Kevin, I took my Fig agent, which as we've talked about in the show before, Fig definitely does have, I think, more of my creative sensibility and kind of weirdness in it. And I just said to it, hey, go to this repo, pull it out, try to make something of this. I did give it the idea of creating some sort of spaghetti Western. I said the word spaghetti Western in that, so it came out. and then I made a video which was a demonstration

with four heads, right? So there's four of those heads and each of them is doing like the tenor voice, the bass voice, they're each a different level of voice and then it turns into something else entirely. Do you want to play like the first, like let's play the first 30 seconds of this to the turn and we'll see how it goes. I want to see you far. You are a demonstration. No more. It's a talking head saying they want to see a horse. Three talking heads in harmony saying you can't, you're a demonstration. And now, here we go. So now what's happening is there's the talking head and all the other talking heads jumped onto horses and they are running through a scene that is based on the visual version of what those heads were originally. So I just want to explain how crazy this is and what Fable 5.2 did with this, right? It took those talking, it took the repo, it understood what the repo was, and then it

replicated it as this demonstration, right? But then it took that demonstration, turned it into a story, made the things fall away, what looks like the holding points, and created an entire Wild West scenario in the same visual style as the talking heads. and not only that like it's funny it's creative like the story makes sense there's a pause button that is the sheriff that is like the bad guy and like it just is shocking when you're able to watch these models do things that like i don't know kevin like six months ago maybe before the 4.5 thing last fall last summer of december i thought was i just thought this would not be possible for multiple years and yet here we are so it's really really a cool way to try it i feel like But something we've been yapping about for a while, the notion of infinite cinema where, you know, it'll be on demand and you'll be able to remix it and take it. It's like this wasn't even intended to be cinema. No. It was infinitely watchable and I'm sure inspired a thousand other people to go, oh, let me download it and see if I can make a short like this or whatever.

Or maybe now we want to expand on the wild Western world of these disembodied heads floating about and singing their way to a bank heist or a high noon sing-out or whatever. I want to play in that world and expand on it too. And that's – it is happening right before our very eyes. Slightly as predicted, but it's happening. And it made me really think about this idea of memetic culture, like memes and all these things. because now if you have the ability to take, work with an AI agent to create something really interesting really fast, the power of like the individual is really interesting, but also the power of like collective weird storytelling is interesting because like, it's not just new to this. This is like, you know, I think probably thousands of people created videos with this weird repo. And like, it does feel like maybe that's the starting point of like some really interesting thing that, okay, here's the tool set. Now everybody go make stories out of it. And even if it only lasts for like a week, because we're about to talk about the next story that kind of like overtook everything in the AI world.

It just feels like a moment of something really significant in that way. So I think that's very cool. And I do want to be clear. There is like, you know, but can it do this and can it do that? There is all the benchmarking and you have to be braggadocious. Can the Chimera demo run Doom? And the answer is, yes, it can. It's pretty impressive, by the way. I like how it goes into the mouth of the Chimera, too. You can play it, too, by the way. So you can actually play the first-person shooter within the mouth and listen to it do this guitar run. Wait. Oh, it's pretty good. Pretty good. Okay, all right. There are so many good examples of this out there. I don't believe how good they are. All right, we've got to transition, Kevin, because this is the biggest story that will affect everybody in the AI space in ways that we may or may not know at this point. Jensen Wong, the CEO of NVIDIA, today either resigned or was ousted. It's kind of mixed up in terms of what it is for sure. But this is a story that has unraveled over the last couple of days.

I want to catch everybody up on it. But then also we have to talk about what the kind of implications of this might be for the AI space and talk a little bit about what Jensen has meant to AI so far. But first of all, facts story. There was a breaking story a couple of days ago that came out. I think the New York Times had it first, but it might have been other places, that Jensen had been having an affair with a woman who ran a company called Mega, I think it was called Megaspeed, and it was a company from Malaysia that was a data center company. It turns out that this woman is supposedly a Chinese spy, and that was unknown to Jensen, at least. That's what it seems like. And then later on, so that was a big deal. And then it also then later came out that he has now had affairs with two women at NVIDIA. So the kind of TLDR is that Jensen had multiple affairs, one of which was with the Chinese spy. And we'll get into a little bit more why that's a big deal. Alleged Chinese spy, just to be clear. Like it hasn't been confirmed, but that's what all the reporting is.

Yes, yes, alleged Chinese spy, but has now resigned or has been ousted. This is still a developing story. Okay, so let's dig in on that Chinese side, the Chinese spy side. And let's get into why this is a CIA psyop, because actually he was for open source models and didn't want to restrict chips to China. But the CIA wants to clamp down on that. But that's OK. You've got to start wherever you want to start. Well, this is OK. So this is we're going to just dive right in because this is the big conversation right now. And this probably has a lot to do with the election, all the other stuff. The thing that is important to know here, though, Kevin, is that supposedly the U.S. government has been aware that this woman has ties to Chinese spy agencies for a while and did not tell Jensen while this was going on. They've continued to track him. So the weird story that's going on here right now that's a little strange and a little conspiracy-ish is, yeah, so Jensen's whole point from here to infinity was AI is good for everybody. the more AI we get out there, the better. Like he was not a big fan of the chip restriction sales to China.

He was also a big proponent of open source AI, who was a big believer in the idea that the more AI we have, the better. He's also, you know, recently- Don't regulate it. The free market will sort it out. Government and- And safety is an engineering problem. AI safety is an engineering problem. Like he believes very strongly in that. And now we have, this is where it gets complicated because you have a woman who is a Chinese spy that has been very close to him, so close that they've had an affair, whose whole goal was to get chips into China, it seems. And the story is, and Jensen is not saying one way or the other for this, but there was some world worry that Xi had been using him for leverage to create these exact narratives in the press in some way. To say China should be able to get chips, to say all this stuff. I think all of that is debatable, but it is probably – you can't imagine a larger story right now in the AI space than NVIDIA, literally one of the biggest, if not the biggest companies in the world, has a CEO who is resigning because of a Chinese chip scandal and other affairs.

It feels like a pretty big deal. Well, let's unpack why it's a big deal for everybody listening. I think we should start there. As much as we love to spill the tea, oh, man, we love it. I think people know that, unfortunately, if stepping outside of a marriage were punishable by you have to resign, there might be very few CEOs left. Yes, unfortunately, yes. Unfortunately, yes. Which is something you've screamed to me so many times. By the way, Kevin and I, I want to make it clear to both of our wives, we are very good at that aspect of it. I think we may not be great CEOs, but very faithful husbands. That's an important thing for everybody. Oh, yeah, yeah. She has nothing to worry about. I've never run a successful company. It's not even a problem. We're in the same boat. It's not a problem. Exactly, yes, yes. But no, and I don't like, look, I don't actually, I take zero percent. I love the memes. Don't get me wrong. The memes have been succulent. Yes, there's a lot of good memes out there. Succulent memes. But I really don't delight in having to discuss this on an AI podcast. No, no, yes. So why, outside of a portfolio, because like Nvidia stock tumbled pretty greatly, and I think people felt that in their 401ks if they're fortunate to have them, or their direct stock purchases.

Like outside of feeling it financially, how did this affect someone that's watching our podcast going like, I don't want to know about his personal life? Okay, so your point about open source models is very important. And the other point of this is the idea of frontier models like Anthropic or OpenAI and how far away they get from the other models that exist. Because I think the biggest thing, we talked briefly earlier about Anthropic as IPO-ing. One of the things that I have heard Dario Modi called is a double hawk. I don't remember who had this story, but you are a double hawk in this space if you believe very strongly that China is dangerous for AI. and if you believe that AI itself is a dangerous technology, they have known Jensen as a double dove, which is the opposite of that, which means that China's not a big deal, that we need to get AI to everybody, and also that AI is a very natural, normal technology. So by Jensen being kicked out or resigning one of those two things whether he resigned for the affairs or whether he resigned because there more stuff going on with the spy stuff we don know But him not being in charge of the most important AI company feels like it will change the

trajectory, for right now at least, of where AI goes. And that will start with the fact that the Chinese companies, whether or not they were getting these chips legally or illegally, in fact, up until now, they've been talking about most of the kind of high-end chips in China that are illegally, there will be a clampdown now, I think, going forward so that no more of that can take place. So the argument here is that in this world we are in now, open source AI, at least on the Chinese side, will have a much harder time succeeding because they will not be getting the most expensive chips. On the other hand, there's a lot of people talking about Huawei, which is the Chinese chip company, you know, really pushing to make their own advanced chips, but they don't have them yet. So that's, to me, the part that's the takeaway is Anthropic and OpenAI seem to be set up better in this world. Now, you know, NVIDIA is the one that's providing chips to everybody. So if NVIDIA stops being able to make those chips, then it becomes a different question too. So that's another aspect of this

is like just the fact of NVIDIA as a company being semi-shaky might mean that, not next year probably because most of the chips are already in production, but the year after that, we don't know where we're going from there. Does that make sense? I was going to say, 100%. And Dad, you did a great job contextualizing it. Thank you for that. I think there's an earnings call happening or it just happened depending upon when you're listening to this podcast. And I'm sure there'll be some discussion of that. I think for the next year or so, from a business standpoint, things are sold and the roadmap's pretty much there and it's on rails. Where it starts to get really interesting is what happens post that and yeah what does jensen i don't think jensen removes the leather jacket and does the homer into the hedge gif i don't see oh yeah you know should we have retired the leather jacket to the rafters i kind of feel like for our show maybe we should maybe we can just set it up right here like in the middle of us oh yeah maybe we'll take the leather jacket and retire it can we hang the leather jacket on the door handle so people know not to come in discussing this topic that's a good idea i hope jensen puts on a new leather

jacket and ends up at an amd that'd be a really interesting one oh that would be really or starts his own something but why not i i don't know or maybe kevin let jensen retire let him live his life go have his fun maybe he wants to go to a swingers resort somewhere maybe that's what his next adventure is maybe he really wants that life for himself you can just see jensen with like a Mai Tai and his leather jacket and like kind of shirtless and a pair of swimsuit underneath it. It's like that feels like maybe that's not going to be what Jensen does. Jensen feels like if he is kicked out, he's going to go start another company right away or join one. So either way, big news story. Definitely worth tracking. It is it is definitely changing over the course of time. I hate to say it like the too long didn't read. If you want to know like the status thing from all this, aside from the interpersonal stuff and marriages, is that now NVIDIA is car. We are not. We're not a car. No, NVIDIA is now a car. I hate, like, he was the last one saying that. Now it's a car. Now it's a car. Now they're a car.

Now they're a car. We are all, what is his line? We're not a car. Yeah, they are a car. We understand that. Okay. All right. You're not talking to somebody who woke up a loser. All right. Oh, yeah. There we go. That jensen's not enough. You know what, Kevin? Who else isn't a loser? You, who are watching or listening to AI for Humans. Oh, I was like, me? I'm a huge loser. No, you are a loser. I am a loser, but not our audience. Our audience are great people. But if you are not clicking and subscribing or liking this video, you might still be a loser. So stop being a loser and click like our show. Rate us on Apple iTunes. Do all the stuff you can do to support us. Send us some money on Patreon. We really appreciate everything you all do here. This is AI for Humans. We do this weekly for you, the lovely viewer and listener. And Kevin, now, let us talk about Spawn. I want to hear your response. I want to say I have seen this company, and I dabbled a tiny bit a while back, but you had kind of a transformative experience. Tell us what this company is and what you did. AI vibe-coded gaming engine.

Imagine your Roblox or your Fortnite creator mode or the old click-and-play games, all powered by AI, all running in a browser where you are started off in a sandbox that is kind of your home world. And you have an AI avatar that you can interact with using your voice or using text, like a basic chat window. And anything you can conceive, it certainly seems like it will build for you. Anything? Real time. Gavin, why don't you come join me in my world? Okay, well, show me your world. Am I going to regret this? No, I don't think. Well, maybe. Okay. I don't know. i do want to like warn uh poor will that this is going to turn into like a six-year-old excited to show off his toys you know this is like christmas day and you got to see what i made but like yeah i think you should check this out and i really wow i'm in like a tiki room i'm in some sort of like uh see where you are because here's the thing it is all out of the box hey buddy how do i turn

off whoa that's pretty good looking like little that so that's your avatar little teddy bear looking guy i uploaded oh look do you see wesley dr wesley walking behind you there he is look at my boy over here i uploaded a picture of my dog oh he's over here over here oh i'll go follow you yeah yeah come here so uh i turned my house into a tiki oh wow you can pet wesley if you want no it's all right wesley's had enough pets for today wow who's that is that april oh no that so that is the ai avatar that builds for you and so if you press tab well you don't have permission to build in my world yet but if you press tab oh this is cool interface and you can just ask it to build things gavin so did i want to play tennis but the sun and the moon we can it's actually a pineapple ball it's a take on pickleball but if you go over here the paddles you can press e and pick up a paddle i'm sure this is incredible this is incredible for our audience while we play oh wait where's the paddle at where do i get the paddle over here there's a there's a whole i see over here i see there's also a tiki god that's a npc that will play with you yeah go grab a paddle

of your choice you know what this reminds me of it reminds me a little bit of um second life do you know what i'm talking about second life um there was another one called like i think altered worlds or alter life there was a bunch of like apps in the 90s oh there we go now so i'm sorry dear audience right now okay i'm gonna stop playing this right now but yeah but you can't play and by the way if you if you use right mouse button it'll do like a hook shot if you jump and hit it will do a power shot it is a full mini game and if there was someone else joining us right now the court would dynamically resize for four okay so tell so i was in there tell me what that is like so no no no you got it go back go back in go back in go back in we're not done we're not done we're not done i swear i'm so not done this is just my home world oh you're thinking other places i said i'm a six-year-old with toys by the way okay this is the pineapple cam i wanted to see could I make a video screen that was tethered to a video camera in real time and do you see the monitor on the side of the house oh cool so the camera the pineapple is the pineapple

is taking a video footage of what's on there that's right so you wow portal games or this that the other and if I point it at the screen you get the hall of mirrors effect like it's legit did you notice the sun and the moon rotating around it Gavin over here you mean up on the sky Yeah. Over here. Oh, that's fun. Look at that. I didn't see that. It's an AI for humans, heads floating around. And then if you stare at these, like, tiki guys for a little while, they'll dance around. There's a bunch of hidden secrets everywhere. There's even a spray bar over here. Oh, by the way, Wesley will stab you if you pet him too much. This is not the game. This is just the home world that everybody has. This is just your world. Yeah, yeah. Remember when PlayStation had, like, PlayStation Home, and they really wanted people to care about it? So in this game, you press space bar to jump, and you'll notice pimples grow. And if you time your bounces, you can get more air, and you'll make pus squirt from them. And then if you press your main mouse button, mouse button one, you'll do like a butt sump. So you can really blast it. There's also links that you can get to pierce ingrown hairs.

And then you pull on the ingrown hair, and you pull it. And if you kill the massive zit, it's worth a ton of points. It's fully multiplayer, Gavin. It has team support. There are multiple levels, and it keeps track of your individual pus points. as well as what your team has squirted. We built this yesterday over the course of like an hour and a half just casually chatting with it. There's Q-tips that you can use to knock people on. Oh, I see you running towards the big zit to lance it. I love that. Tell me what's interesting about this because I think I get it. I think it's very cool. Is it when you're in there creating the game, what does the prompt situation look like? So when you want to create the pimple popper game or whatever, is it asking you, hey, create a world, and then you are inside the world doing it or are you creating it from a text prompt or what does it look like? You are in the world in an engine. Like when you first start, you are literally in a green field and it gives you like a basic house but you can say click new game. You're in a completely empty world. You can make a 3D game or say actually I want to do a top-down 2D game.

I want a point-and-click adventure. I want to make an interactive storybook. I want text-to-speech. I want speech-to-text. I want video assets playing. You have full control over what you want to build And again, it's real time. They give you a generous amount of free generation. I could not believe how much I was able to make and build characters and swap. I have no idea how they're affording it. You can also generate a token that you can connect to a cloud code or a chat GPT. So if you want to use your own workstation to build in your own world, you can. Oh, cool. That's very cool. I like huge shout out. I'm a David Jaffe fan. I don't know if you're familiar. I'm sure you're familiar with his games. But for those who aren't out there, you know, God of War, Twisted Metal Series. He made a game called Calling All Cars, which was like NBA Jam meets, like, cars. Yeah. Really awesome game. Awesome, awesome indie game. And he's been doing a bunch of live streaming with it. I think he started with sponsored streams for Spawn and now is just making games. He's making a Bomberman-inspired Marvel game right now on YouTube.

And it's amazing to watch him approach it with his kind of game designer eye. but the interface is you click a button and you say with your own voice what you want the ai to build and it will do it and it will iterate on it it will test it and it will implement it and put it into the game and i had it build for the marble game which we didn't even play it's a full-feature game round gameplay i had it build toggles so i can go in and at any time go let's turn on match voting uh let's turn on crazy physics let's do this let's do that so it's really robust developer tools. And again, this is not an ad. I wish it were like I fully do. I begged them to let me into the creator program so I could get unlimited credits and they did yesterday. So I'm planning on being in the world and playing with it every day. The stuff that I made, I'm making and like I'm alt tabbing and doing a couple of commands and then going back to my actual job. It is addicting. It's crazy fun. There's a lot of other tools trying to do it. This is just one that is again out of the box multiplayer you can invite friends to your world

and yeah with you in real time so whatever that's really interesting too make it with yeah and i think one thing that's interesting is you might look at that like the kind of like entry worlds and be like oh it's not that capable but you have to remember like this is like the early stages of this thing and they're going to be built all over the place if you go to roblox a lot of the roblox games don't look that capable either but like the amount of community that can come to these things and can bring stuff to them. I think as these tools get bigger and bigger, like this is the multiverse, right? Or whatever, the metaverse, right? This idea that you can walk through a portal into somebody else's experience. The thing I always think about with these things, which is slightly tricky, is like making sure, one of the things that Roblox does really well is it has the tiles when you show up and you go right into that thing. And like, there is a level of discovery, but I know Spawn has something like that too, kind of like a homepage where you can try these different games as well, right? Yeah. If you go to spawn.co, So you'll see none of my games are on there. Not yet, at least. There's plenty of shooter games. Like right now, the top thing is like there's a first-person shooter. There's a third-person weird shooter.

There's like Lore Island, which is like a casual, cozy fishing game. So there's a bunch of different styles. There was one on there that I played called Rot that was like Vampire Survivors-esque with way better artwork. Like way better artwork. Wow. And like character progressions and levels. I played a game that someone tweeted at me called Shell Runner, which was like an auto shooter. It was like the old game Prey or if you haven't played Shadow Complex. They had like pangs of that in there. But what was really cool is I played that game and then I went back to my world, my home world. Oh, and you could bring stuff with you? And I had a game trophy from the game. Like I had an achievement from their game that they made. So it's like – look, it's early days. I'm sure there's a thousand other platforms like it. This is just the one that I spent five minutes with, which then turned into 30 minutes, which has now turned into like me being giddy to share it with you because I want to see what your brain comes up with. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited to try it. And people out there should try it too. I think the idea of co-creation, as we were talking about before, just feels like the biggest thing. And like being able to, in real time, generate games with your friends feels like the future

of gaming a lot, especially when, you know, somebody was just recently saying like GTA 6 comes out next week, right? And like, that's going to be the last, I think it was Ethan Mollick tweeted this, like the last human made game, right? Like the idea that going forward all games will be AI at least partially AI created And the chance of things like that becoming much cheaper much more available is a great thing And I excited to go try Spawn And you know let us know if you in the audience and you have something that you created within there that's good too. What exactly happened with the House House drama here, Kevin? Speaking of gaming, there's another kind of little gaming thing here. Yeah, House House, a great developer. They made Untitled Goose Game. They're a small team. They were up for an IGF award, like an Indie Games award. Sure. They had to do an AI disclosure. Because this is I don't want to get super in the weeds with it, but it was like, hey, they don't want generative art in their games. So they did a disclosure saying that they did use AI tools to help close the gap as they were in crunch mode trying to ship. Which is totally fair. And everybody should probably be doing it.

It's fair. Yeah. But I'm obviously my pendulum has swung so far to the other side that I think even using generative art tools is fair. But I'll digress there. They did a very lengthy post basically saying they had a bug that they could not squash. So they used a chat bot to get direction on how to squash it and then hand wrote the code, like the one line of code to fix it. But of course, because AI bad and all AI bad and get AI out of gaming, people revolted. They review bombed their game. No. It's called Big Walk. Yeah. Beautiful indie game. They got review bombed. It really like kind of blew up and it really, you know, it's like thwacking the hornet's nest because you had all these never AIers saying, how dare they? they tried to hide their AI usage. Then they disclosed. I mean, you had everybody else going like, every shop uses AI. And if you are literally handwriting code, you're not going to make it unless you're making something very, very specific for a very specific audience. Yeah, the only thing I can say to those people is like, hold out.

I think this is all going to change. And in two years, the idea that people wouldn't be using AI would be crazy. Okay, we have some other really quick things we want to get through that are big still. Gemini 4 Argonne is rolling out. This is Gemini's second frontier model in a month. So this is coming out to people soon, hopefully. Supposedly, this is very good. It is performing as high as like the Opus 5.5 level or better. I have not used this yet. They are rolling it out with a bunch of benchmarks, which seems to be how Gemini likes to roll sometimes. But it is coming out to everyday users and everybody is going to be able to use it today. So I will try to go use this today, which is exciting. In addition to that, Kevin, they have a Gemini Decision 1 model. This is based on GEV. Now, I'm calling it GEV, G-E-V. Google something something. I don't know why GEV makes sense. It just sounded like DEV and GEV, but that's my version. Then finally. That's our celebrity couple name, actually. Oh, yeah, there you go. It's GEV for GEV. Who's got the hot goss on GEV coming out this week?

And finally, Gemini Hydrogen. There's a big week for Gemini releases. Hydrogen is their newest small model. Supposedly they've gotten rid of the Gemini Flash name, and this is, you know, Hydrogen. Why not make it more confusing? But this is a model that performs at the Sonnet 5.5 level. Again, getting very good reviews. Most importantly for both Argon and Hydrogen is that they are cheap. They are going to be cheap. So if you are building off of their plan, this is not, you know, if you pay for the AI Ultra plan or the AI Pro plan, you're building within that $20 to $200 window. So if you are building with the API, they are probably worth your gander because they are significantly cheaper than the Opus and the GPT-6 all models. So you should keep an eye on that for sure. Another thing to keep an eye on is the advancements with AI that are seeping into all of the software, which will then suddenly make it okay to use. I'll die on that hill. Adobe Max had their big event, and they announced a big Disney partnership. So Adobe, you love or loathe them depending upon who you are from Photoshop to After Effects and Firefly, et cetera.

They have a Disney partnership where they're going to be the creative and design partner for all things AI. So Disney is going to get early access to all of the AI tools. Adobe showed off a bunch of them at their Max event. There's like a 3D painting tool, which – Yeah, very cool. surprise surprise ai to figure out what the geometry of something is so that when you're you know painting over it it works within the scene and respects shadows and and people they had like a face tattoo example well let's talk about this because this was a this is game changing right this is a game so what they did in real time is they did a demo on stage first of all the adobe fans are a little too excited i feel like they might have like stacked the deck with people going like yeah it's a little too much for the adobe new shader support okay but there's a very cool thing where they basically in real time show a face tattoo and then they move it across the guy's face who's who's there and you really get to see like oh this is interesting because if in real time you can place a face tattoo and it kind of avoids different parts of

the face or kind of warps around it again talking about your spawn gaming platform you could see how interactive experiences could be really fun to play with if you can start it's all about manipulating reality kevin that is what we're all going towards this idea that we're going to live in a glasses world where everything around us can be manipulative and I will be able to finally have face tattoos and my wife won't be able to say anything about it. I'll be able to be the face tattoos that I've always wanted. I have tattoos on my arm. I have tattoos on my leg, but finally I'll be able to get the giant snake tattoos that goes right down my cheek. Oh, I love that. I really hope to get that serpent. I really do. They're putting MCP support into every app. So that's agents upon agents. They showed off all sorts of features like, you know, from the media stuff had me super interested, like auto separating stems of dialogue, cleaning things up, auto color correction, auto editing. You ask the agent to do what you want to do, but it just on the heels of the house, house controversy about like, oh, AI disclosure, whatever to see an audience full

of people. Hot take. Sorry. I have like friends that are never a I-ers. Right. And I see their Instagram posts all the time about AI and your effing data centers. It's bullshit. It's bad for the planet. It's stolen. Valerie is stealing from artists. And I saw them reposting these Adobe max tools cheering. Oh, my God. Instant rotoscoping and instant 3d this. And Oh, I could just do that. I'm like, it's this, they slapped the label on the open source source tool that you were crying foul at. It's still AI just because you're paying for it monthly. And it has the Adobe logo on it. Does it make it not AI? So, look, come to the party. That's fine. But don't finger wag at the people that were early adopting or whatever. Think that you're somehow more virtuous because you're paying monthly for the AI tool that you're using. It's still an AI tool. Do you think – so I just thought, Kevin, when I watched these, these are pretty cool. But I canceled my Adobe Creative Cloud subscription like, I don't know, six months ago. Would something like this get you to resubscribe?

I will say the MCP part of it is a very interesting addition. I don't know. Is there any, I don't know. Are you a subscriber to the Creative Cloud? Yeah, I'm not. And what's odd is that I don't, I don't know that it would, I could understand why it would bring somebody back. I'm not intimately familiar with a lot of Adobe's products. I use Photoshop like decades ago. I used Photoshop ages ago. When I edited, I did a sizzle for a show recently and I did it mostly through Claude Code and I had it make an XML file that I could put into Final Cut Pro where I could polish and finish because I happen to know that. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't think about that. That's interesting. Oh, and it worked great. And it worked great. And it did all my layering for me, and I had to do some audio sweetening and a whole bunch of stuff. It even color corrected a few shots, and I just put on the touches that I wanted in Final Cut. I don't know that I would even need Final Cut a couple months from now, right? Well, that's how I feel. Yeah, that's how I'm feeling right now with editing. Like, I feel like the editing, there's a real revolution right now going on with AI video editing, and maybe we can do a deeper dive on that soon. But, like, you can do a lot just by talking to Cloud Code.

Yes. That's the thing is I don't think it will be someone bolting AI onto an existing product that's going to get me to go back to a product. I think it will be the AI native product that has me way more excited for it. But I'm not going to be proven wrong there. But hey, Gavin, so many tools have come out. And that was quite a deep dive. But maybe we could quickly get over them in the quick tool corner. All right, quickly. Claude introduced three random things, even though they've got their IPO coming in Fable 5.2. They've got Claude Whiteboard, Claude Sheets, and Claude Data. and Kevin, the most exciting part about this, these are just tools for your business you might need. Claude Whiteboard is like, you know, you can work with other people, but the most importantly, Sheets. So this is something that Claude has felt like they have missed for a long time. It is a spreadsheet program. It will allow you to do very specific spreadsheet stuff in Claude. One of the more frustrating things about doing work in Claude always felt like you were getting some sort of BS and then you had to go get an XLS file or a Google Sheets file. So now you can do stuff within Claude itself. Yeah. I've been using it. It is such a tiny thing, but it's so important.

Yeah, because to your point, you would iterate on something and then you export it to a Google Drive and then have to go over there to manipulate it because it couldn't quite edit it. You'd have to share it with different people in a different way, and then your session was disconnected. So surprise, surprise, they're going to try to eat the world. So great. I'm glad that it's here. Yes. Next up, ByteDance has launched Seedream 5.5. This is their new image model. Very, very good image model. looks to be competing with nano banana pro i again i'm trying to get some time to spend with this i but kevin the thing that's most exciting about this is if by dance is launching a new image model you know what is not far behind is hopefully a new video model it has been a long time since cdance 2.5 you can do 4k now which is pretty cool cdance 2.5 i saw somebody say it was a dollar a second so i'm not going to be doing that anytime soon but yeah cdance 3.0 uh video would be a very very exciting thing to me personally so i hope that's coming soon i would mostly be psyched for it because it would theoretically mean that the price is going to drop on 2.5 and that has been stopping me from making so much stuff and finally patch is a new company from the guys at foul

who were a big part of they weren't the the vast majority but they were a big part of the gaming decompiling movement that we covered a couple weeks ago there are three guys from foul that left and what they are doing is trying to create a company that basically allows you to do those kind of cool remixes or game creations from on your own it's basically a company that's going to host a lot of these things including a ton of assets that you can go and use for free from there which is very very awesome so you check it out and it's interesting i'm clicking around on like i would definitely am going to sign up for this and and poke around at it but the the main page like there is a splatoon i won't call it a recomp but there is it's called ink wave it's Definitely feels like a reconf. It certainly looks like a reconf. But, man, I don't know if the attorneys are going to have to use AI to keep up with all of the lawsuits that are going to be flying around. Well, so I usually, yeah, what is the latest on this? Because I'm so curious about this because there are arguments legally on both sides.

Like, look, I understand there's been, you know, you can only do so much X, Y, and Z with taking something somebody else has created. But is there any difference here because it is all code and it can be recreated and it is not? Like, what is the latest? I haven't heard about this. I don't know the latest. That's the thing. It's so murky and it's still kind of happening in real time over what is legit. Obviously, copying someone's assets is protected. Yeah. But, you know, like there's also laws that like if you if you hum a chord progression that is very similar to another song, it doesn't matter that it's your own voice or whatever. You can get caught for that. So I just, I mean, at some point, there's still going to be, it's going to be one world government and one, it's going to be Coca, Pepsi, Core, Amazon, Google. Like there's going to be one company to rule it all anyways. And we're all going to be like. It's probably going to be anthropic at this point. Let's be honest. It's probably going to be anthropic. All right. Before we go, it's time to see what you did this week with AI. See what you did there. Okay, Kevin, two quick fast ones here.

One is the game that I think will be near to your heart because it is similar to an idea we talked about a while ago. This is from Apec Chic, and it is called The Infinite Backrooms. And what's very cool about this game is it is clearly a vibe-coded game, but it is a game that's based on the backrooms where you are multiple explorers and the game is created in real time. And what's awesome is you can see a map of all these people exploring the backrooms in the different parts of the backrooms that are opening up. It is essentially a virtually endless game of exploration. And I just think it's a cool way, at one point this guy said he had a thousand people exploring at the same time and you could kind of see everybody in the different areas of the map just a very very cool idea of something it reminded me i remember when we were talking about brand then that idea of like an endless like kind of like audio game where you each dungeon room you would go in you would have to figure out what to do and then that would affect the next one i still think that's a really fun idea in general oh so cool i'm looking at it now and i made the

mistake of trying to load it in so where i capture audio and now i can't really gavin can't hear me Am I even sending? Oh, I just lost your audience. So anyway, before we go, last thing I want to shout out. It's just a fun thing to go away with your weekend with. This is Voldemort doing Gangster's Paradise. And I keep seeing people doing these things, which is video to video. If you want to waste some time this weekend, go watch Voldemort's Gangster's Paradise and maybe try to make one of your own. That's it for all. I'm sick. I'm sorry. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.