410: Freshworks CPO ジョアンナ・ジャックマン氏――責任あるAIは遅くない。人間の判断を伴う大胆さだ

Yeah, I thought a lot about this, Dan, actually. At the core or the heart of it, I actually think that the contract in air quotes is being rewritten in real time. I think about what's happened traditionally, what's happening today, and I feel that schools are changing and things are moving faster and faster. But the employees at the heart of them are asking themselves, will the company help me stay relevant? Yo, it's the future, don't hit the snooze. AI is giving humans the boost. Team humans rolling, brains in the game. With Dan Turchin, y'all remember the name. People ain't in the mix, no stopping the blow. Better work, better life, yeah, we're ready to go. Robots and humans are collab, you know. Okay, let's start the show. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending on where you are listening. Welcome back to AI and the Future of Work. As always, I'm your host, Dan Turchin, CEO of PeopleRain,

the AI platform for IT and HR employee service. And if you like what we do, and I sure hope you do like what we do, I ask you to do two things for me. One, go ahead and subscribe to the newsletter. It comes out weekly. We share some fun facts and tips that don't always make it into the main episode. and pay it forward. Share a link to this episode or any other that you've enjoyed with just one friend. They'll know that you care about improving humanity with great technologies like AI. If you leave a comment, I just may share it with our audience. Like this one from Allison who writes from Trenton, New Jersey. Her favorite episode is Special Episode 21 featuring lessons from five incredible female AI CEOs, including the great Charlene Lee, Daphne Jones, and Tess Posner. We published that one earlier this year in honor of International Women's Day. We will, of course, share a link to it in the show notes. Now, your AI fun fact for the week, this one from the World Economic Forum,

which says fears of mass unemployment often overshadow the potential for job creation, according to World Economic Forum, while AI automation is projected to displace 92 million jobs globally by 2030. That's a scary statistic. It's also expected to create 170 million new roles, resulting in a net gain of 78 million jobs. Continue to support Team Human. It works out okay. Of course, we'll share a link to that one as well in the show notes. I'm so excited for you to meet today's amazing guest. Joanna Jackman, also known as JJ, is the Chief People Officer at Freshworks, the AI-powered IT service operations company. Founded in 2010 with more than 75,000 customers, JJ was appointed to the Executive Leadership Team in August 23. And before joining Freshworks, she was the Chief People Officer at Airtable. And prior to that, Chief Human Resources Officer at Pure Storage.

Before that, JJ spent five years at LinkedIn, where she ultimately served as VP of HR. She also serves on the board of directors of Grafana Labs, great company. She holds her bachelor's in business with a concentration in HR management, organizational development, and econ from the Queensland University of Technology in Australia, which, of course, is the home of mascot Tank the Tiger. and without further ado, JJ, my pleasure to welcome you to AI and the Future of Work. Let's have you share with us a little bit more about that illustrious background and how you get to where you are today. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Dan. It's so nice to be on your show. I've heard amazing things. I've listened to some of your podcasts and I'm just thrilled to be here. So I feel like I'm in good company with you. So, basically, I have a little bit about my background. I'm Australian, obviously, with this accent.

I've lived and worked in about six countries. So, my formulative years were actually in Papua New Guinea. And I think living in so many different places has allowed me to think about people, culture, and work in a very, very multifaceted way. So as you mentioned, some of the companies I've worked with, I spent the majority of my career in technology, Microsoft, LinkedIn, QA Storage, et cetera. And I'm able to reference various points in my life around the actual, you know, working for big companies, smaller startups, organizations like LinkedIn where it's scaled enormously. So I've been very influenced by that. A little fun fact, which you wouldn't probably know about me, is I actually started my career in mining, the mining industry in Australia. I spent several years, once I graduated, working in open cart and underground.

And so it was very foundational to how I interact and work with people. And it really, for me, it really allowed me to start thinking about it really doesn't matter the industry that you actually work in. It's about dealing with the human. And that's what really matters. And so I've been very, very fortunate to experience, you know, have enormous experience at these companies. And that in itself has allowed me to create an environment where great people can do great work. That is, as I mentioned earlier, it doesn't really matter the industry, how large the organization is, how small the organization is. If we can all create an environment where great people can do great work, then the world becomes a little lovelier. And so that's the core of what motivates me and gets me out of bed every single day. Before we started recording, you and I were catching up on all the many mutual friends we have from Freshworks and elsewhere.

and I think so highly of the Freshworks culture that you've built. You've been there a critical three years. What do you think are the key attributes of the culture of Freshworks? Yeah, thank you for even asking me that question. The environment here is amazing. And I think that's what draws so many people here. We have many, many strong relationships. We have great managers and we have very clear ambitions about where we want to go. So every month we ask our employees, they participate in a poll survey. And so we get a pretty good read on what it takes to actually work here. So there's three things that come across very strongly, I would say. The first one is around manager support. Our people consistently tell us that we have great people managers here. Collaboration. So people genuinely love coming to work and working with each other at Freshworks. And then the other third category that's really strong is clear goals.

So our people understand where Freshworks is heading and how their work connects to everything else. So when I look at the, I guess, the trifecta, it's pretty powerful. The great managers, the great colleagues, the clarity of direction on where we're heading. And I think part of this is always, especially having someone like, well, having Dennis as our CEO, we are constantly raising the bar. He's extremely focused CEO. We have great, big ambitions, and so we drive this culture of very clear performance and accountability. So I guess that's very foundational to everything that we do and everything that this company is based on. And so I think the monthly surveys, which we only actually started doing earlier this year on a monthly basis, is allowing us to really listen and modify and also keep us honest. So I think that there are some of the things that are very, very clear reasons as to why people want to stay and work here.

You've certainly been an instrumental part of some iconic people cultures and leadership cultures, going back to Microsoft, LinkedIn, now Microsoft again, during some incredibly high growth years. What is it like to be in your role today versus, let's say, a decade ago in a different company, a different culture, but gosh, it's a much different world for a people leader right now? Yeah, it's a really good question, actually. I think in some ways the world has changed so dramatically, but to your point earlier, I've also lived through other tech eras before, such as when the Internet was introduced, which was another phenomenal wave. And so I think if I take a step back, what I'm noticing in today's world is historically we've been tied to org charts. What's IT doing?

What's HR doing? What's finance doing? Where do I fit in all this chaos? And instead, where we are today is we've got to think about things like workflows. And so Ashwin, as you and I both know, Ashwin, our CIO, is phenomenal. He and I are two peas in a pod as we think about the world today all around the employee experience. From the moment we hire someone to the moment that they leave the company, our goal is to make things as simple as possible for them. So helping the organization shift from thinking like an org chart to thinking through a workflow is really, really foundational and very, very important. It's almost like we're thinking about it as people platform as a service. So the platform itself becomes increasingly important and less so the organization today. So I think that's one aspect. I think the other aspect is AI is still relatively new.

Yes, it's been around for many years and in many ways, but it's still new to the everyday person and their relationship with AI is forming. And if I look at, you know, younger people entering the workforce, you know, they hear all this chatter and this talk and this media, the social media about, you know, your jobs could be at risk, what does all that mean? And we're guilty of inserting fear, uncertainty and doubt in these people's mind, yet they have the distinct advantage of not having to undo learning, which is the case for many people in the workforce who have been around for, you know, a couple of decades. And so that shift, I'm noticing that just human behaviour shift as well. Like these people, how do you, they don't have to unlearn anything. Instead they come out in all their glory with curiosity And it our responsibility my responsibility anyone who a leader responsibility to help continue unlocking that

for these amazing humans. And the more that we can create a healthy relationship between the human and the AI, the better the work, the better the world is going to be. Well said. Now, shockingly, all of our listeners won't have heard of the great work that Freshworks does. I know that's shocking. Most of the planet will have heard of it, but not every last person. So you get a chance. So tell us how your day job relates to the value that Freshworks customers get from Freshworks products. And maybe if there's a customer story that comes to mind, just make it real for us. Okay. Well, I love that because I'm going to tell you my favorite customer story, which is about the HR organization. So we are customer zero, and it's interesting because it's not the first time I've been customer zero. When I was at LinkedIn, it's the same thing because we're selling a product to HR leaders externally.

So at Freshworks, we had the distinct advantage of being the core use case and working with our product team as well as our IT organization on making and creating this amazing product that's so simple to use compared to many, many other products out there. And so if I look at HR as the specific example, traditionally there's been a lot of friction. There's been friction as you think about the forms, the tickets, the questions, the approvals, where do I go for that, where do I go for this, et cetera. And here at Freshworks, we partnered with Ashwin and his IT team because, as I mentioned earlier, employee experience isn't solely owned by HR alone anymore. We think about the employee as a journey. And the employee doesn't think separately about the HR organization, the workplace organization or the IT organization. They just want something that works for them and they want to have a great experience doing that.

And so that's what we've done here. We have, in the same way Ashton introduced LiveHR, which is this really simple use case where people can just go and automatically get their answers or queries solved, the same thing has happened for what we've done with LiveHR. So it's built with fresh service and employees can go anytime, anyplace and ask questions around their benefits, around their employment verification details, whatever issue is going on. And the more that we are driving that experience for the employee, obviously the AI is getting smarter and smarter, the more that their use cases are being solved immediately. And that means that these people, our employees, are able to just have free time to work on the things that really matter because at the end of the day, that's what I want for them, that's what Ashwin wants for them, Dennis wants for them, which is to really make sure that they can come to work, get rid of the clutter,

and just do the job that they are here to do, which in our case is to make our customers' lives easier and better. And so when we have great employees working on great things, they get to do that. Great example. I feel like there was a time when both of us have lived through it. the expectations from employees for their employers was, I don't know if I'd say simpler, but you expected a paycheck and some tools and a title, and you knew exactly what was expected of you. And now I feel like the relationship is changing. And maybe that's obviously for technological reasons, but maybe it's generational, maybe it's cultural. The power balance maybe is I would love to know, you're in the trenches, you're living this transformation. How would you say the expectations are changing? Yeah, I thought a lot about this, Dan, actually. At the core or the heart of it, I actually think that the contract, in air quotes, is being rewritten in real time.

I think about what's happened traditionally, what's happening today. And I feel that, like, skills are changing and things are moving faster and faster. But the employees at the heart of them are asking themselves, will the company help me stay relevant? So the relationship between the employee who has a responsibility to keep learning and equally the company has a responsibility to help keep them relevant, that has to line up. It has, I think, historically been an imbalance. So I think that employees have to continuously rethink how are their people working, not simply thinking about things such as AI as a simple tool. So when I take a step back and I look at things such as AI fluency, it's a shared responsibility. So, yes, the individual has to lean in and learn. The company has to provide the tools, the resources, et cetera.

And I do believe that leaders have to provide the time and encouragement and role model, role model what they're using. And that's one of the things like I look at Dennis Woodside, our CEO, and he does a remarkable job at doing this, you know, just insatiable curiosity and hunger that starts at the very top. and shares the story, does a beautiful job in storytelling and encouraging the entire organization to experiment and learn from their experiments and advocate and share and amplify. And so I think there's still – so we're in a very fortunate situation at Freshworks where Dennis does a remarkable job at that. I don't know if every other company does that. But, you know, I look at Freshworks and I'm like, okay, we've got, what, 4,000 employees. So we can't really tell them that AI is critical to the future and then expect them to figure it out, you know, on their weekends or at nighttime.

And so we have done a very good job advocating for AI, not just through the Dennis Hughes case and the other management members, but doing things like AI in motion days. And we did this recent, well, we did it a few months ago, actually, across 11 cities. And it happened on company time. People were learning from each other and actually building things and not just sitting through training. So they were building things and making things happen real time. And it was really nice, actually. We had about 25 working prototypes that came from different parts of the organization, whether it be CX or sales ops or IT. And these were peer-led sessions. So employees were teaching each other how to use the AI. And so I think things like that are very, very important. And any organization can take the time to advocate for that. You don't just have to be a tech organization to do that. Equally, I would say that leaders also need to be straight with people.

So yes, AI is going to augment some work. We've seen this before. AI will fundamentally change some work. They're going to create new work. And yes, in some situations, it will eliminate some work. But I believe equally that employees are inherently resilient. And I think employees can handle the reality of that. But the transparency and the trust that comes with those honest conversations and the openness and the partnership and the relationship between the employer and the employee has to be clear. and that clarity is really, really important and it's a responsibility for anyone who calls themselves a leader to be that clear. Back to what you're saying about the Freshworks culture. I know you're forming it. It's happening in real time. It's evolving as it should. You mentioned an important role that you serve. I asked you about a customer story and you said, I'm customer zero. Yay. You have kind of a unique vantage point when it comes to evaluating HR tech

and I mentioned you've been at the company just about three years in, a very critical three years. Maybe if you could walk us through the journey from when you entered till now, how has your thinking as a people leader about the HR tech tool stack changed in just three years? Yeah. Yeah, it's such a great question because Dennis and I were talking about this the other day actually because, you know, we're going through our annual review process. We're talking about succession planning and I use that. I use this as the example. I'm thinking, okay, when you think about succession planning or progression planning, as we could call it, many people's roles fundamentally change because if you think about the role in three years, people try and grapple with that. Like, what is the role going to be in three years? Well, let's take the goose case. What was my role three years ago and how has it changed? Everybody's changed, certainly in tech.

Their job has changed to various degrees. So I think AI is forcing, certainly me, to understand the work itself a lot more, not just the people doing the work. And I think that's probably the biggest shift that I've paid attention to. So I think historically, HR can, you know, when they come and think about technology transformation, They think about it in terms of communication or policy change management or whatever is going on. And you can't do that with AI. And I think the people function needs to be in the details, in the arena, experimenting and helping shape how the company changes. As you pointed out, we are the use case. So I look back to two and a half years ago and our people team actually was the first team across Freshworks to run the company's first AI hackathon. I was really proud of that moment because not that I'm necessarily competitive, but it was a proud moment because the engineering team followed a couple of months after we did.

And it was interesting because I had some of the engineering leaders on my HR hackathon, and then they invited me to there. So everything gets blended. And it's like for HR, we're not just writing the rules. We're participating in the sport. We're not a spectator of the sport. We're actually in it wanting to win it. And so that's really how I'm thinking about it. And I think some of the questions that I've been spending a lot more time on now is less so about how much headcount do we think we need for next year's planning, but rather what work actually needs to get done Like what are the capabilities we need What are the humans doing What is it that AI can do or manned And what capacity do we actually need to get it done? So it's like the shift away from traditional headcount planning to the capability and capacity planning is really, really important.

And I see AI changing that in how we value the talent. And this is about the AI fluency and the learning agility and the fact that we're hiring an AI enablement leader at the moment because we know that that's the future of work and we need more and more experts in that area. And so that's one aspect of it. And then I think about other aspects of it. Things like org designs and career paths, if AI actually removes some of the work people traditionally did earlier in their career, well, then how do we build judgment? How do we build the relevant experience that they need for that next job? And so I think that that's really, really been an important part of it. And even as I mentioned to you earlier, Dan, when I look at the chief people officer and the CIO relationship that they have, the employee experience, the technology experience, they're converging into one.

And that's why I keep going back down to the fact that it's the people platform as a service that cuts across all boundaries, all org charts, to create the simplicity of use for our employees so that they have the freedom to do great work. And it's that great work that will delight our customers. I mentioned in the fun fact, the World Economic Forum says by 2030, there will be a net 78 million jobs created. I know that's counter to a lot of the fearful narrative out there, but that's the World Economic Forum. You mentioned something very important that you're hiring for one of those whole new career paths, an AI enablement leader. Tell us what that means to JJ, but also to Freshworks. Yeah, it's interesting because Dennis and I were talking about this last week because it's AI and the relationship that one has with AI, but it's equally as important as the behavior.

so we want we whilst ai is going to automate a lot of help automate a lot of things we still need the human to be able to use really good judgment we still need the human to be able to stay curious and demonstrate that insatiable hunger for learning we want to be an environment where our people come to work every day knowing that when they leave at the end of the day, they're going to be smarter because we've equipped them to be smarter. And use good judgment, as I mentioned earlier. How do you teach someone good judgment? So the AI enablement leader is multifaceted. Yes, there's elements of teaching people how do you use AI for greater efficiency. it's about how do you think about how is AI going to create space so that the leader can be spending more time exercising human judgment

it's about how a leader in an organization or a people manager in an organization can think what can I automate in my workflow flow and where can the human get more value and be used in other ways. So it's multifaceted and it's still, to be truthful with you, Dan, it's still even an experiment for us. We haven't hired the person yet, but it's also, it's almost in some way that we're giving them a little bit of a magic wand and saying, okay, create and make. That's what we need. And that's why we have to stay curious and we continue to hire people who are curious and who want to make ways for the future. It's not to turn around like we would have done several years ago and say, oh, here's the exact job description. That doesn't exist anymore. Like we're making up the jobs as we go.

And in many ways, I actually think that's highly creative and super fun. I love the way you describe it. One of what I believe is the new challenging parts of your role is that the organization is looking to you and your team to define what's acceptable, what's appropriate. Nobody wants to feel like they're being penalized for using AI or that AI is something they have to do in the shadows. And so it's, I believe, incumbent on the people leaders to define what is the responsible use of AI? What are the parameters? And once you create a safe place for experimentation, then the culture will feed off of your leadership or the parameters you set. How intentional are you about that part of your role? And what does responsible AI even mean to you? Yeah. I think when I think about it, for me, responsible AI means using AI boldly, but not being ignorant to human judgment.

And so I personally love the word responsible, and I think some people think about responsible as being maybe slow or being afraid of something. But I think the important distinction here is that AI is helping us make decisions and AI is versus AI necessarily making the decision for me or for us. If I look at any kind of like consequence of a decision for a person, the more important human judgment becomes. So I'll give an example. So think about hiring or performance promotions, annual headcount planning, which is what we're going through at the moment. AI is very helpful. Trust me. It's been very, very helpful. It can bring together the data. It's helping me identify patterns and giving me insights at a speed that we necessarily haven't had before. But at the end of the day, the leader still has to exercise judgment and own the decision.

And so promotion readiness, I believe, is a perfect example of that. So we're looking at how AI is looking at performance, experience, skills, and other inputs that they're giving us. But at the end of the day, I don't want to use some algorithm or methodology to decide who is right for the next job. That is where the leadership and the quality of leaders that we have here who can exercise very, very good objective and sound-based decisions, that's where the human really comes on top. And so I think people need to know where and how AI is being used. And I mentioned transparency earlier. transparency is super important to me because the more transparent you are, the stronger the trust. So I think that in an AI-filled world, sharing when you've used AI and when you're not using AI and how it actually impacts the employee

is very, very important. So what's the data we're using? Could there be bias? Who is accountable? And so I think anything related to the impact on any particular employee and if AI has been used, then that is really important that we be transparent about that. I think giving people really clear and transparent guardrails is just a necessity. It's not a choice. AI is impacting different parts of the labor force very differently. I think that's Captain Obvious speaking, right? But probably it's no more disruptive than for professionals who are early in their careers and maybe who haven't even entered the workforce yet. A lot of those kids in college are apprehensive, some enthusiastic,

but they're watching a workforce change before their eyes that, you know, even us as, you know, seasoned, you know, the gray hairs in the room, we don't have all the answers for them. What's the conversation that you have with early career employees who maybe are looking to you for some guidance and, you know, kind of a steady hand when the fact is, you know, we're all in this together. We're all learning in real time. This is so important because it's this generation of people who are our future. And so I have a 23-year-old son, Josh, and he graduated from university early last year. So he's been in the workforce for a whopping one year, and he works for a large global tech company. And so I do think about this not just theoretically but also very personally. And what I admire about what Josh is doing is that he makes it his business to stay relevant.

And I think, you know, I mentioned earlier the relationship between the employer and the employee has to change. There's a responsibility on both parts. That still stands. And so if I look at Josh or any of his friends for that matter and our employees here who are early in Korea, you know, what I'm seeing and observing is their insatiable level of curiosity. in a way that has never been consumed before. I mean, I remember when social media came out all those years ago and, you know, wherever you TikTok or whatever, you know, choose whichever one you want and the hours and how consuming it has been for many younger people, especially back then. And I always admired their ability to learn, Like their ability to suck in that information and retain it, and they seem to become more and more agile as humans.

And then came AI on top of that. And so they are almost conditioned or groomed in many ways to be hyper and how they test things how they use things how they study things And in fact I will be truthful with you When OpenAI came out Chachi Pichi came out many years ago or three years ago it was actually, I spent an exorbitant amount of time with Josh, my son, who was teaching me how to use this and the relationship with it, figuring out how to be better at what we do. And so I think in speaking with earlier in career people, what I love about them is they're making it their business to stay relevant, but it's being built on this other historical information basis that they've been learning from. And so none of them are waiting for someone to tell them what course to take or what AI tool to use.

They're just learning by doing it regardless. And that's the mindset I'd encourage anyone in their earlier career to do. Like, don't be a spectator to what's happening. Just get in there. And as I mentioned earlier, I think actually our younger employees have a distinct advantage. They have less to unlearn and can build AI into the way they're working just from the very beginning. But don't just become great at AI. That's the other important factor here. It's, you know, keep developing the things that become really, really valuable as AI gets better. So using great judgment, stay curious, be an amazing communicator, build the relationships that you have, continue building them and navigate the ambiguity of life. Like that's the way I think about it. And I think this connects back to the employer and employee relationship.

Companies still have the responsibility to provide the time, the tools, the opportunities, but equally these individuals have to own that side of the equation as well. So that's how I really think that, you know, you have more agency than you think. and so if employees and people in general can just stay curious and keep experimenting and making sure their own relevance matters, then we're all going to be in a far healthier place. I love that. It's good parenting wisdom. It's good leadership wisdom. Stay relevant. Stay curious. You have more agency than you believe. All things that are so important at a time when employees feel destabilized. The tools can feel dehumanizing. Certainly if you're in the job market, it can feel tough like you're competing against algorithms.

Josh was exceptionally successful. Clearly he has his mom's genes. What was his job search like? What would you attribute his success to? Yeah, thank you, Dan. And he has been successful because he just got promoted as well. So yay, yay to Josh. Yay, yay. Within one year. Yeah, within one year. Yeah, that's pretty remarkable. But I think the approach he took to finding a job was mathematical. So he was very, very focused. He had spreadsheets, Google Sheets, very clear on what tech company wanted to go into tech. So he already knew that. So I think that, you know, what industry? Okay, why? Why? Because I want to be, you know, I want to go and do X, Y, Z. Okay, great. So let's cast a bit wide. Let's go the top, you know, 100 big companies.

And then what's the culture of the company you want to work for? because just because you can go work for a tech company doesn't mean it's the right fit for you. What do you want to learn in that environment? Describe the kind of manager you want to go work for because you need a great manager who is going to be able to create the leaping ground for them to go and put their wings on and jump into their next career after that. So it was a very, once we got that list down, Then it was like, okay, let's use LinkedIn and let's use our networks to go after somebody in that company. And so, again, Josh was able to target very specific people. He had a lot of meetings with a lot of people. And then even in some situations, it would be like, okay, Josh is applying for this job. How do we get it in front of the right eyes?

and that was actually the way it worked at the company he's currently at. We were able to get it in front of the right eyes and then Josh, like everybody else who applied for the job, went through six interviews, two rounds of presentations, decision made. He got the job. He calls me super excited. He calls me an hour after that and said, Mum, I feel really bad. And I said, why? He said, because I'm thinking of all those other people who apply for the job and they didn't get it. And I said to him, your job then is to open up as many doors for other people as you possibly can. That's pay it forward. And that's what he's doing. Gives me chills. That's very special. Yeah. My daughter, who's a freshman in college, I'm going to require her to listen to this and learn from Josh's example. That's just incredible and great coaching from you as well. Well, I'm happy. In fact, and if ever you want, I've got that methodology.

I've kept it and I've shared it with other people as well so you and I can talk offline about that. Mathematical precision. I really appreciate how you described it, and I will take you up on that. Maybe we'll share with our listeners as well. Yeah. JJ, unbelievably, we're about out of time, but I'm not letting you off the hot seat without answering one last very important question for me. So let's say JJ and Dan are back here, and it's 2031, not 2026, so five years in the future. How has the role of the chief people officer changed? Is it 10% different? Is it 90% different? What's left, given how disruptive a force AI is, but maybe what new opportunities are there for people leaders? Well, first of all, I'll be taking the call from Australia. because we could do this job anywhere. I won't be doing it from San Mateo, California. I think it becomes, I think the world will increasingly become the people platform as a service.

I do, because I think we'll be changing the behaviors to think about workflows, these seamless workflows from beginning to end. And I think some roles are going to be blended. I know that some roles have you got the CHRO plus AI officer or you've got, in some cases, CHRO and IT officer. So I think the two will become more and more merged. But I think that's just, as I say, that's the org structure. But inherently, I think it's just going to be this amazing end-to-end workflow experience that will delight our employees, where we will also have not just the human employee, but the digital employee as well. And so when we think about Workday, we use Workday here. At the moment, everyone gets an employee ID number. We'll have digital ID number as well for all our employees.

You know, they'll be working. We'll have digital employees working 24-7. but yet on their employee voice survey they won't complain, hopefully. I do believe it's going to be a fundamental and remarkable step change in how we think about it. But the work still has to get done by humans and exercising great judgment at the end of the day is what it's going to take. And so the role of the person is going to be increasingly more and more based on great judgment, keeping themselves relevant, the growth mindset, attitude. I can't underscore all that enough. I've listened to one of your podcasts on humanity, and that's so where the world needs to go. So it needs more of that. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think you just invited me to join you in 2031 in Australia.

Yes. Yes is the answer. I love that. So we will get a chance to see how well your prognostication worked out. Just one question. Is it Melbourne, Sydney? Where are we taking this? Brisbane. Brisbane. Okay, number three. Okay. I would have been through it on my list. JJ this has been wonderful I'm so looking forward to this and certainly didn't disappoint. Where can the audience learn more about you and the great work that your team is doing? Oh on my LinkedIn profile they can go to Freshworks as well there's lots of avenues to hunt me down come down to Australia or a million Brisbane. Yes Brisbane, Australia let's go big wonderful I will see you there perhaps in San Mateo sooner Dan I just want to thank you so much for taking the time to spend with me on this topic it's super important you ask great questions

and I think you what you do is amplify the humanity in all of this craziness of the world that we live in today and I can't underscore enough that we need more minds like yours in this world thank you for saying that 450 of these episodes never had a guest share that but I say every week we're all on Team Human and I've seen how this plays out, it works out okay for us just need more heart more empathy more good judgment, more positive thinking, but it works out okay and thank you so much for being part of the community and sharing your wisdom that's lovely, thank you so much Dan Brilliant. Well, gosh, that's all the time we have for this week on AI and the future of work. As always, I'm your host, Dan Turchin from PeopleRain. And of course, we're back next week with another fascinating guest. Yo, it's the end of the show. Time to power it down. AI exists for humans, wear the crown. Team human in the house, got the vibe so clever.

Dan Turchin from PeopleRain, making us better. We learned about AI as a human. We're ready to conquer the future. That's all for now. See you next time.