Meta はいかに Muse を設計したか：本当に話したくなる AI エージェント｜Alex Cornell（デザインディレクター）

designers have struggled with how much do we narrate along the way what is happening is quite obvious to the user so that latency doesn't feel so painful my experience in the muse app is i do like that progressive disclosure and it's one of the things i called out in our review but also it's just fast like it is just fast if you are a engineer you may want to know exactly what your agent has done and you can find that in muse but if you're a normal person you maybe just want to want to know like is it doing something so at the top it'll tell you it's working i'm very happy with our solution currently because we sort of like expose the benefit of the main chat to people but i feel like there's a lot more that we could do in terms of helping people organize i had a blog 20 years ago and i had marlo go and find it and then accumulated them into one pdf first but the way that i like to read it now just again from memory is via a podcast and muse is able to take it and just like reform it into a way that's like really interesting and useful for me.

When your muse is being obstinate, what is your prompting strategy? What do you do? Welcome back to How I AI. I'm Claire Vaux, product leader and AI obsessive here on a mission to help you build better with these new tools. Today we have Alex Cornell, design director on Meta's Muse, and he's here to talk a little bit about how to design a great agent experience for consumers and a little bit more about some MetaMuse use cases you might not have thought of, especially ones that involve shopping on Instagram and going really hard into some of your personal hobbies. Let's get to it. This episode is brought to you by WorkOS. AI has already changed how we work. Tools are helping teams write better code, analyze customer data, and even handle support tickets automatically. But there's a catch. These tools only work well when they have deep access to company systems. Your copilot needs to see your entire code base. Your chatbot needs to

search across internal docs. And for enterprise buyers, that raises serious security concerns. That's why these apps face intense IT scrutiny from day one. To pass, they need secure authentication, access controls, audit logs, the whole suite of enterprise features. Building all that from scratch, it's a massive lift. That's where WorkOS comes in. WorkOS gives you drop-in APIs for enterprise features so your app can become enterprise-ready and scale up market faster. Think of it like Stripe for enterprise features. OpenAI, Perplexity, and Cursor are already using WorkOS to move faster and meet enterprise demands. Join them and hundreds of other industry leaders at WorkOS.com. Start building today. Alex, welcome to How I AI. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Big fan. Happy to be here. I am, I was just saying, I am a big, big fan of Muse.

And I have used probably every AI agent on the planet. And Muse, I will tell you, fastest time to pure delight I have had with an AI product in a very, very long time. So tell us a little bit about how you approached designing this agent, because I think some of the primitives you picked are very different than what we see in other agents. It seems like the persona that you're going after is different. Walk me through how you all ended up where you ended up from a design perspective. Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. It was definitely a really interesting challenge and felt like a unique one. I think we all could feel that something was different this time around, I think, from a capability perspective. And I think, like, just simple things like the fact that an agent can message you proactively changes the nature of, like, how you think about the product from a design perspective, even in, like, super simple ways.

Like, I've joked before because we have bubbles around our messages, you know, and, like, that's typically something that you associate more with messaging than, like, an AI app. Like long ago, I think most AI apps kind of stripped those out. And that is there, among other reasons, to help with the separation that you need when an agent is possibly messaging you at different times of the day. You kind of need to know where and when the different messages begin. And so simple things like that, I think, inform some of the design. But the basic framing that always we went back to and I think was probably the most helpful was just imagining that this interface was more of an exchange between you and an entity. And that's why it's embodied at the top of the screen. And so a lot of the patterns that we looked at were much more messaging patterns, you know, and not thinking about how did this work before in different AI apps or using kind of like the traditional industry, I guess, as a reference. It was more like, how would you handle this if you were actually speaking with another person?

You know, and that was immensely clarifying, I think, in almost every decision that we had to make. And I think defines kind of how it feels. You know, when you look at it, it feels like a messaging app. You see a little guy there at the top of the screen. And I think like that, even something like that, you know, one of the other capabilities of it being able to work in the background makes it really important that you know when it's working. And so just simply having that status, I think, has been one of the most important decisions that we made. The other thing that strikes me as very different about Muse is the primitives that you've chosen to elevate as core parts of the application. Because I think for those of us who have been using AI, building tools, chatbots, et cetera, we're used to these ideas of like threads and chats and projects and machines and files and diffs and connectors. Like they're these very software-centric concepts. I think because a lot of these agents have primarily been built as coding agents for the enterprise or knowledge work agents.

And then I look at Muse and what really struck me is you have this like character, first of all, as a primary entity. You have chats, you have ideas, you know, you have these, you have your feed, like you've just chosen different aspects to elevate. Is that because you knew that this was going to be serving a different type of user with a different kind of like breadth of intention around what this agent could get done for them? Yeah. You know, I got a text actually from my mom like this morning, which is really funny. She said that she has apologized to her muse for making him work so hard and thanked him for all that he's done for her, which I found really gratifying because I have been working in software for a long time. And I don't think my mom has ever used a thing that I've made, not because like I don't make interesting things. To your point, I think typically they can be maybe a little bit inaccessible to kind of the average person. And I think with this kind of technology, too, it is so new and has so much capability to it that's not obvious.

I think that was definitely a huge part of what we were after in terms of making this more accessible and intuitive for people to use. And I think like, I mean, you hear a lot about progressive disclosure in design, and it's kind of one of those things that like you hear like on day one and then like you always think about. But like, I don't know, you don't use it every day. But in this product, I found it to be one of the most helpful things, which is like you take something like status. It's like if you are a engineer, you may want to know exactly what your agent has done, and you can find that in Muse. But if you're a normal person, you maybe just want to know like, is it doing something? So at the top, it'll tell you it's working. Jolly Bot is working. And then your next question might be, what's it working on? You know, and so it will tell you that with the little emoji, like researching pumpkin patches. But then if you want to go a little bit further, you tap on it. And then you have a list of everything that it's done. If you want to go a little bit further, you could tap on that. And then eventually you get down to where you're going to see the curl and all the like all the code and everything, which is really important from like an auditing perspective.

but it's only there if you need it and it doesn't get in the way for people who may not know what that means and i think like you you see like a lot of uh what is traditionally referred to as chain of thought can get pretty loud and like really detailed in the core chat and that's the kind of thing i think that like typically we would have just put that in there because that's like what you do these days in ai apps but i think in this case it was like well does it really need to be there for everybody it's like probably not you know i'll give you one other compliment because again i am a i'm a news girl now but i i also think that a lot of times these chain of thought reasoning user you know like elements in the ui are there as a band-aid for latency which is it feels very um frustrating as a user to sit and wonder is my agent working on something and is it making progress or is it just stuck and so i think a lot of designers have struggled with how much do we narrate along the way what is happening?

So it quite obvious to the user so that latency doesn feel so painful versus how much do we kind of like do progressive disclosure And what I think is nice about my experience in the Muse app is I do like that progressive disclosure. And it's one of the things I called out in our review that I thought was quite nice. But also, it's just fast. It is just fast. The model is just fast. I do think for especially something that's going to try to catch the eye of consumers, that latency really matters. and it's a zippy little agent. Yeah, it is. And it's really, you know, it's interesting actually because it's one of those things where sometimes it's so fast that you are tempted to think, like, is it, like, did it actually go do a thing? Like, because it's so quick. And I think, like, the nice thing is there are times where it will, you'll ask for something somewhat complex and it will at least acknowledge your request, you know, either through a reaction or an initial message and then go off and do the hard work. And I think like a person, you know, if you ask for something hard, they're not going to just ghost you until they're done.

They'll usually just say like, okay, here's the plan. I'm going to do this. I'll be back when I have it done. Or even just a reaction is enough to let you know that it's doing it. And so I think like that balance of when to respond quickly, how to respond, what to say, and then like what to do in the meantime if it is a really long task. And that's where we start to rely a little bit on that status display to let you know like what's going on. And if you want to know, like, specifically, did it get stuck or is it, like, going down the wrong path, you can check. And I think that that's really helpful because you never really feel like it's just gone off and left you alone. Yeah. One other thing, just thinking about this status message I want to talk about, which is this concept of generative UI. And I think a lot of people think, when they're thinking about generative UI, they think, like, every time I log into my dashboard, it's different. or every button I click is unique for every person. And what I saw in looking at the Muse agent is you're using generative UI in a really elegant way,

which is like the core primitives stick. You've got your avatar. You've got your status message. You've got your ideas. You've got your feed. But then within that, every time I log in, I have a new set of ideas that are based on the things that we've talked about. And every time the status is generated, it takes the exact right emoji. And when it's working on its computer, you get a little generated video of it typing on its laptop. Like that type of, quote, unquote, generative UI, I think, is really delightful and much easier to understand for folks trying to understand how they can bring these concepts into their own app than, like, every time any one person opens up, the UI is completely different. Right. Yeah. I think perhaps one day we'll get there, you know, but I think these days there's it's definitely a little bit more on the rails in terms of like where we can apply it. The avatar is a great example. And I think people find a lot of delight. I have seen when they do make their own new avatar, seeing that it will then be translated into each one of those states, you know, typing on its little computer or making something.

And that's been one of the most fun things because we, of course, have our mascot. And, you know, Jolly has the states as well. But like if you turn yours into a tomato, then you'll see a tomato typing on the computer. And that really does feel very personal and is, I think, a very delightful thing. But, yeah, you mentioned feed and ideas. And I think that those surfaces, you know, you could definitely imagine this app with just chat. And I think part of an agent's power is that it can handle a lot in a single chat. And you can kind of just treat it like a really capable personal assistant in that way. I think, though, like there's so much that it can do that might not be intuitive for people that exposing some of those additional capabilities just with the additional surfaces that we have, like ideas in particular, it's serving a very specific purpose, which is basically just telling you some things that you may not know that it can do. I think like to your point if those were just generic suggestions that would be one thing maybe even useful things but when they're specifically based on what you've talked about I think that's

when people really find the power where like if you talk to it about golf all day like I do like then I got a lot of golf ideas and then the feed too the feeds are a fun one because you can experiment and I think people should experiment more than than they do it's like the the you can write anything you want in the prompt and and get a feed of whatever like i mix and match things all the time and like have a really uh really interesting feed and i often change mine too just because like sometimes i'll get tired of getting like muse news or something and i'll switch it to something else like i try to do like kid stuff on the weekend for example but yeah i mean it's still a native surface though you know like the feed unit that you're looking at is still like one that we've designed and it's being powered by the intelligence of flight and the personalization that your muse has but it's like it's not yet like a fully generative surface okay so speaking of ideas or things that your muse can do for you that you wouldn't thought of i'm gonna let you get your screen up and share with us some of your ideas and while you're doing

that i will tell you what my muse's name is which is slime and slime is a pink dinosaur fashioned after my child's favorite stuffy. And he is very adorable. Okay, so let's look at Mario. Yeah, so mine is Marlo, which is a cactus. And I have a bit of a complex relationship with Marlo because my original muse was Jolly Bot, which is the mascot that you see everywhere. And it's named after my daughter, who we call Jolly Bug. And when we started using Jolly Bot everywhere, I felt kind of weird using Jolly Bot for mine because it was like it was just too close to home. So I made kind of a cactus version, which is Marlowe, which I like a lot, especially Marlowe's little cactus laptop. I love the fuzzy laptops. Just send me. They are so funny. They're really funny. Okay. Well, walk me through some things that you do with Marlowe that are fun. Yeah, I can show you a few things. So I think one of my favorite things recently is I had,

and I would recommend doing this, by the way, I had, if you use Instagram, I had Marlo look at everything I'd saved on Instagram and just organize them. So put all of my saves into folders and categories, useful baseline. But then I said, okay, look at everything I've saved and maybe send me some suggestions for shopping ideas, like gifts and that kind of thing. And I did that, again, just in text, which was a good idea. But one of my favorite things, I think, to do with these systems is take what would be otherwise like a fairly mundane set of data and render it in a way that I personally find really fun. So with this, what you're looking at here is Jolly Bot Sky Mall, which is that same set of suggestions that have looked at everything I've saved on Instagram, considered some ideas for things that I might be interested in, but then rendered them in the kind of the vernacular of the Sky Mall Sharper Image magazine. So as a 90s kid, this is speaking my actual language. So this clock, for example, you can see right here.

It was a good suggestion. It's yours. Yeah. So this is a fun one, and I think it refreshes every day, and it's kind of like a really interesting way to, both for me personally as a designer to look at, because I think it's a really fun type of crazy design, But also, like, you know, I may be one day in the market for a new rangefinder. So it's nice to see that. I love this. And then have you, I just, I'm curious, have you transacted with Marlo on, like, have you bought, has Marlo bought you some things? Yeah, but probably not anything that exciting, like watch straps and things like this, you know. Like I think and I've had like I one of the things I do most actually with mine and probably my favorite use case is like I feel like a kind of just like monitoring superpower where I like always looking for like, oh, if this artist releases a new album, tell me. OK, great. If this artist comes to San Francisco, tell me if this golf brand does a collaboration with this person.

like I have a lot of things kind of like on the on the radar and so like usually like you know Ray always talks about and I remember from your thing movie tickets movie tickets is a big one as well um so yeah I have and uh I think that it's definitely like something that is um it's just really useful I haven't hooked this that's actually something I would like to do I haven't hooked this up to where I can like make it easy to if I do see something I like go and get it but mostly because this is more of a fun thing for me that I just love seeing these things rendered this way. You know, the other thing that you can do here, which I do, is I have a trigger that every week it looks at the list of stuff that I'm, like, interested in buying and sees if any of it is on sale. And so it'll be like, you know, that thing you've been waiting for, it's now discounted or, you know, this vendor happens to be selling it on sale. And so then I just get that, like, just-in-time discount on things. I also do a lot of price comparison.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do all the research as well, too. Like whether it price or just kind of like what reminds me of like used to be a very manual process of like okay i in the market for a toddler car seat you know it like normally that would kick off a lot of web searches a lot of like youtube watching and everything like this and now it's like i usually start amused with whatever it is and then kind of go from there yeah well and i do think people are really i haven't heard a lot of folks talk about the instagram connector it's one that i also use a lot it's just a it's a very rich source of personal information that has historically been in a format very hard to reason with so and now it is in a format that I can actually like reason and extract that that value out of it I use a lot of I use a lot of Instagram I use um because now these agents can log into websites I like use my Pinterest a lot more too I use these like visual records a lot more than I had in the past.

One kind of like for the designers out there, one of the things that I've done recently is like open up a board or a saved group and said like, I like this, help me generate concepts based on this or language I can use to describe this. And so I think the ability for these agents to reason with visual data in a way, especially if you can just log into a website or use an Instagram connector, just really unleashes a lot of creativity use cases I feel like have been harder to do before. Yeah, Pinterest is a great idea too. I mean, I think like, you know, to your point, I feel like I have scattered about the Internet a lot of this information that's kind of just gotten lost to time, you know. And so like my Instagram saves for better for worse. I've been using that forever, but I very rarely go back and mill about in there and like look at them, you know, because it's like you're kind of just i don't know what i would be doing necessarily one thing i did actually i don't have it here um but i do save a lot of golf tips and but like hundreds like

hundreds and hundreds of golf tips that i'd never go back in and look at so i had marlo do it and then consolidate them all into like a manual and so that i have this like kind of like for alex like these are the things you should work apparently you think you should work on you know and it was That was pretty cool because it was like otherwise kind of just buried in time, you know. And actually to that end, I have this one too, which I like. This is another Instagram one, but I do post a lot of stories. And this one is basically just showing me an archive of random stories from the past that, again, I would never look at. And it's kind of like, I mean, I always think of this as like my new kind of feed that I'm looking at where it's like, you know, this is just mine. But you could bring in any kind of content here. and like i love looking at this kind of stuff it's just kind of like nice memories and i'll check it a couple times a day yeah exactly yeah and like i you know have a five-year-old so it's fun seeing like little things of her like when she was growing up okay you mentioned golf and we're going to talk about muse for going hard on your hobbies let's talk about how are you using

muse for your golf game which i you know as a parent of a five-year-old i'm presuming is inconsistent at best. I know. Yeah. I used to always joke about this with people on the team because I, a lot of what I would want to use, use for was golf oriented, but that sort of assumed that I was able to play golf, but like we've been building this project for so long, but it's like kind of very few and far between when I'm able to get out there. But yeah, I use it in a couple ways. And I think what's nice about this is, um, similar to some of my other hobbies, like chess, There are services already that I use that monitor, like, how I'm playing. So every time I play, I record the round. That's a thing most golfers do. And so that's, like, some basic data about the course that you played, what your score was. But I also keep track of every shot that I hit on a watch. And so I have a lot of data that I can provide. And what I do is I just have it every week, which is, this is, again, kind of sad because it looks every Sunday and I never play. So it's like I can probably just tell it every so often. But it will send me this basically every time I play, which is kind of like a round recap.

So I'll see kind of like how the round unfolded. Much richer than like a paper scorecard or some other way that I'd be able to see it. And sometimes, I don't think this one has it in here, it will tell me a little bit about the course. If I played the course a lot and it will like tell me, okay, on this whole, this is usually what's happened. You did better today or worse today, which is really helpful when I go back and play the course again. This one's doing a little bit of that. Like it's trying to tell me like how I could have turned my 84 into a 79 by just like doing a little bit better here or there. The interesting thing about this one is, and again, we've talked a little bit about this, but I think like it's taking data that like was pretty much very plain and monolithic and not really showing me more than the number and turning it into these different visuals that like tell much more of a story. Like I had this, the red line is like a very bad front nine. And then the back nine was a very good back nine. And you can see that with the graph, like, very easily. That would be much harder to do if you're looking at the scorecard. So this has been great. I also, whenever I practice, I have a lot.

I feel like when I'm practicing, I'm like those people you see running with oxygen on with all the wires hooked up to them. Like, I can only practice every so often. So when I practice, it has to be very, very data-oriented. So I have all these machines that are looking at me when I swing. and this again it's like putting out all this stuff that like i kind of understand but it's really helpful to get me used to like really go through and like tell me about like where i can improve like what i need to do better what's looking good and that's what they're looking at here was like a practice session really broken down into the fine detail i think like golfers will know what this stuff means but it's kind of it's you know it's kind of like uh it's it's very useful, I should say. And do you have a Muse goal to get better? I do. I have. And this is one that, yeah, like I said, kind of a sad one I make no progress against. But that is one of my long-term goals. So I have a lot of mention of things that I'm tracking. I love the tracking section in particular, just because there's a lot that I keep an eye on. But in terms of long-term goals,

it's basically, I would really like to be a single-digit handicap in my life, which is like, it's achievable it's hard it's kind of like the perfect goal because i can talk to muse about it anytime and like it knows that all these things are kind of like accrue into that goal it's kind of the perfect like hopefully not super long-term goal but it is definitely one of my main ones quick quick question about muse and this could be maybe personal preference or you could just give our audience a little bit of insider tips on how to use it main chat or side chats. I haven't decided if one is better than the other. I like my impulse is towards side chat. And I don't know if that's just an artifact of how I've been working with other chatbots or if it's actually useful. It's a great question. This is actually one of my favorite things to talk about because I think it's such an interesting architectural problem in the space. And, you know, the way Muse is designed is there's a canonical main chat that is kind of very

intentionally the primary main line and we sort of feel like you could use that entirely if you wanted to we know that for a lot of people especially anyone that's used to the way most of these apps work today that threading is a very useful way to organize so we have side chats for that purpose like if you want to put something specifically in like just to get it out of your main chat or it's like a very scoped problem for whatever whatever it is there's lots of reasons why you might want to do it. That's why side chats are there. But it is definitely like a single thread with the possibility of side threads, whereas most apps are all threaded. That's kind of like the traditional model was like a new thread every time you open it, you know. And I think once the models were able to handle the context and be able to manage everything in a single chat, to me, that is a little bit easier way to interface with what you feel like as another entity, the same way you would have with another person you know like i don't side thread with my mom or

something like that you know now all that said i think that there remains a lot of really interesting work to do to kind of like up level this to maybe you could say like the agentic era i feel like even even still this is sort of an under explored area where i'm very happy with our solution currently because we've sort of like exposed the benefit of the main chat to people but i feel like there's a lot more that we could do in terms of helping people organize and like really understand the difference between the main chat and the side chat because your question I think is a good one and one that you know a normal person could very reasonably come to too and just be like why would I use this instead of that and I think all that stuff can be I think it's going to be an exciting area in the future okay show me your last hobby Oh yeah. Artifact that you've made. Yeah. Well, I'll show you, one I wanted to show you was this one with a podcast attached because I think this one's very fun. So I had a blog 20 years ago, which has again, lost the time.

And I had Marlo go and find it way back machine going to blogger it moved between Tumblr like I moved it all around you know so it went back and found all the posts and then accumulated them into one pdf first then this little thing that is basically just like looks like a blog but the way that i like to read it now just again from memory is via a podcast uh which is sent to me every morning and it is just basically a random reading you can hear a little weird to anyone else that 90 of people wear the exact same colored pants which is the kind of thing that a 20 years ago alex used to wonder about and it's like very very funny because you're hearing yourself kind of but 20 years ago you barely remember anything you know so like i i everything that this person is saying i'm like yeah that is kind of weird but it's like of course i would think that because it was me it was me yeah yeah but anyway i think like that one i love that one because like a lot of these things i guess you

could say it's sort of a theme here which is like i feel like i'm constantly taking these things that i had in my life but like for whatever reason like i do not look at them i can't like it's presented in such a way that it wasn't useful for me at the time or whatever and muse is able to take it and just like reform it into a way that's like really interesting and useful for me whether it's interesting like this or useful like the golf stuff or you know i have the same thing for chess as well which um will break down my recent games and this this one gets a little bit like uh snarky i guess you could say i didn't tell it to do this but it's like kind of like will poke at me a little bit uh which is kind of fun like there's a b5 collapse like i don't know What's going on here? But anyway, so it's a fun one because it's useful, but it's also kind of funny to have like this. I guess you could say like kind of snarky chess coach that's trying to help me get better. Well, and for folks that aren't watching, this is a dashboard that I think pulls in your chess.com data, right?

And just renders it and gives you game by game breakdowns. I really like this. Yeah, it's been useful because, and, you know, the fun thing is you basically just define this in chat. You know, so when I originally asked for this, I said I have a chess account. I would love to see kind of a mixture of analysis, but also like trends over time, because it's helpful for me to know, like, am I improving? It looks like right now I'm kind of like falling off a bit. But then the main thing that I wanted to do in this case is give me a review of the most recent game. So I can go through here and try to get a sense of like, what did I do wrong? In this case, I just quit mid game. So that's not that helpful. But, you know, when the daughter arrives home, you have to stop playing. So that's exactly right. Okay, so we have seen Marlo do everything from revive old Instagram posts and blogs to give you a custom and kind of nostalgic shopping catalog to taking all – you seem like a data person. Taking all your data you collect and especially for some of your hobbies and let you put it in a way that will allow you to achieve either short-term or long-term goals.

And then we talked a lot about, you know what, why I think a lot of people are reacting so positively to Muse is because it's well designed. It's thoughtful. It shows you what you need. It's fast. And we all have these, like, little cutie pie, cutie pie avatars. Well, let's do very quick lightning round questions, and then I will get you back to all your important work. First question is just, I think, designing these agent experiences and AI experiences are very new to a lot of designers and a lot of PMs. The surfaces are new. The underlying infrastructure and technology is new. What did you have to learn? And then what were you able to kind of like fall back on that has worked forever from a design perspective? Oh, that's a great question. You know, I think one thing that I have found for myself and any designer kind of coming into this project or really just this space is really wrapping your head around what a non-deterministic system is and what that means for when you're designing a screen.

And by that I mean like we're used to and through for my whole career, you would come to a feature and you would be able to think about it and then design it and kind of know that like on any given customer screen is basically going to work like this and look like this because that is the way that this thing has been coded. And that is the only outcome that you will see, you know. And so then the bugs that you would see would be like, oh, no, like this circle didn't appear where it's supposed to. And it'd be very, very scoped in terms of like what you had to think about. And I mean, it sounds like kind of routine to us now to talk about this. But like you're saying, in terms of things I had to learn, it's hard to remember what it felt like even just a year ago, how different things were. you know but when you first come into this space i think really understanding that these systems usually do like kind of end up the way you think but like my muse setup is completely different than yours is completely different to somebody else's they're so personal and they can like do so many different things that you really kind of have to think more

about the underlying foundation and the system the architecture the scaffolding that's in place and less about like well what about this one little thing here is it going to be just so So, you know, actually, one of the things that's hardest for me sometimes is looking at those artifacts that we were looking at. Like, I kind of have to turn off my brain sometimes design wise because I'm like, you know, it's like it's a different. You can, if you want, go and spend all the time in the world to, like, make it look exactly as you want. But I've come to kind of view it a little bit more freely. And it's kind of, I think, kind of liberating in some ways to feel like, you know, this is still just a very useful output for me. And maybe I will take the time to make the colors just so. but otherwise it's good and it's fine, you know? And I think, like, that's kind of a fun new world, and that took some getting used to, I would say. That is a very gentle approach to the spectrum of slop to high-quality agent design stuff that we get out of our agents. Speaking of, you didn't get the colors quite right,

when your muse, when Marlo is being obstinate and not giving you what you want from a quality perspective, you know, just not listening. What is your prompting strategy? What do you do? Yeah. Well, not like a well-formed one in the sense that I didn't, I suppose, ever reason about it. But I am very polite, I think. I'm not all caps. I'm not a multi-exclamation mark person. and I do find myself sometimes looking at what I wrote and be like wow that was really nice way just to express that frustration and I think it's really interesting and I feel this way when I'm doing any kind of coding thing as well where things you know can will maybe take a really long time then go sideways and it is really frustrating I have always been surprised with how like not consciously but how I will just speak to it the way I would speak to like anybody else about it like i don't i don't ever really get mad to other people so i don't really get mad to

marlo or jolly bud or otherwise you know um yeah so i don't know i've it's always how i've been i have seen i have some friends who show me sometimes like the traces when they have gotten really mad the thinking trace will be will be like kind of a reset like okay alex is frustrated so i should really you know so it does make me think sometimes i could probably be a little bit more forceful more effective yeah yeah you know i i also try to generally be polite with the exception of what feels like very expensive misaligned coding misadventures that's the one that like really gets me yeah and to be honest every time i'm yelling it is true to agents as it is in life it's usually a me problem yeah not a them problem yeah but you're right though like they go off on a misadventure. It's like, that's, yeah, it's not frustrating. Well, Alex, this has been so fun. Thank you for being so generous with your time. We love Muse. I'm excited to see more

of it as it evolves. Where can we find you? How can we be helpful and how can we follow along? The most helpful thing would be to download Muse, try it out, and you can let Muse know when something isn't going right or you want to feature. Those do come to us. So that's probably the most helpful thing. I think for me, like on the internet, Threads is probably the best place. I try to, I've been trying to do some posting about the behind the scenes and like kind of some decisions that we made and I'll continue to do that. So that's probably what I would say. But yeah, trying the app out and letting us know what you think is the most useful thing. Amazing. Well, thank you for joining Hawaii AI. Yes, thanks for having me. Thanks so much for watching. If you enjoyed this show, please like and subscribe here on YouTube or even better, leave us a comment with your thoughts. You can also find this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Please consider leaving us a rating and review, which will help others find the show. You can see all our episodes and learn more about the show at howiaipod.com.

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